User talk:Meneth

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Revision as of 19:52, 28 August 2013 by Evil4Zerggin (talk | contribs) (Inline references, LaTeX formula display)
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Quickest way to reach me is IRC, but I'll respond here as well. If you leave a message, feedback or otherwise, here, please click the Add topic button in the upper-right corner and use that to give your message.


I would like to request Bureaucrat privileges to allow me to better assist this site. If not included with those rights, I would also like to request server access. Both of these would allow me to better contribute by importing pages, dealing with user-rights, and extensions. While that would not be all that I would do with the rights, it would encompass most of my actions. This early in a wiki's "life" any mistakes can be easily corrected and not affect too much. I thank you for your time and consideration. ~ Ad intellige (talk) 06:07, 3 June 2013 (CEST)

There's no reason for you to have bureaucrat privileges. ~ Meneth (talk) 10:49, 3 June 2013 (CEST)


I believe that we should only have the captcha for account creation rather than editing. It only gets in the way of regular editing. While it cuts down on spam, it also annoys human users. Thus, I do not believe it to be so necessary. ~ Adintellige (talk) 06:50, 3 June 2013 (CEST)

CAPTCHAs ensure that there's virtually no spam. Most people are added to an usergroup within a few edits that ensures their edits don't trigger CAPTCHAs any more. ~ Meneth (talk) 10:50, 3 June 2013 (CEST)

User promotion and Navboxes

Hello dear, I registered to the wiki and am willing to help. I would like my account to be added to the user group Autopatrol if you don't mind. The only right I need so far but so bad is the skipcaptcha.

Also, I'd like to create some Navigation Boxes ({{Navbox}}), but to have the expand/collapse option it needs some Javascript functions. You would have to create the MediaWiki:Common.js page and add there the code that would allow viewer browsers to display expandable tables without a reload. You can copy it from eu3wiki (we only need the part from /** Collapsible tables ** on). If you don't want then I'll try to get nice looking Navigation Boxes but they won't be expendable/collapsible.

Just to show you how it looks like, here is an draft exemple I created in a rush for testing: {{Country List}}.

Yours, Klymene (talk) 00:08, 15 June 2013 (CEST)

Added you to the usergroup; would've added you earlier but I hadn't seen your edits until now. Expandable stuff should be doable without using Common.js though; see the V2:Template:Spoiler for example. Do tell if that isn't usable though.
Nice work so far, looking forward to seeing more from you. ~ Meneth (talk) 00:13, 15 June 2013 (CEST)
Thanks for the support. As for the expanding tables, I'll need to read some documentation. I'm ok with wikicode and some css, but less fluent with javastuff and advanced coding. Kly.

Country Templates

I was wondering if we should include the starting National Ideas under the country template

National idea group would make sense for those who don't have unique ideas. Could be added as an optional section in the template. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:29, 1 July 2013 (CEST)

Unnecessary Pages

Sorry for creating unnecessary pages, I didn't see the recent changes. Medibee (talk) 02:52, 10 July 2013 (CEST)

General rule to organization: Look at the CKII Wiki, it is the best of the wikis ;) ~ Meneth (talk) 02:53, 10 July 2013 (CEST)

Tiers and Challenges

I was thinking that we could start a tier system for all the countries. It would be a gold, silver, bronze and dirt levels. A gold tier country would be the most user friendly such as England or France. A silver country might be a middling European power such as Bavaria, Switzerland or Novgorod. A bronze would be the Mamelukes or Japan. The dirt levels would be the ones that are the least user friendly and the hardiest to play as, such as Ryukyu. Alternatively to metals we could simply arrange them from 1-5 or 1-10 in difficulty levels. If you like that idea we could also do it for their individual components. So England has good Naval NIs and a good starting position so it would be rated high in the "Naval Nations" page.

All of this would allow a player to more easily pick the nation he wants to play. If he wants to play a land power he would open up the "Land Nations" page select a country that is high on the list and go from there. It can also be useful for players who want a challenging nation to play.

Also as a side note, we could create a EUIV challenges page in which we invent challenges for players to try on their own. These would range from the easy "Create Great Britain from Scotland" to the nigh impossible "Annex France as Ragusa".

What do you think?

I like the 1-10 idea better. Rating a few different categories (Naval, Military, Trade, Colonial & Diplomatic - for example) - then each country would have a score (in this case 50 being the easiest and 5 being the hardest) this would give new players a sense of where on the difficulty spectrum each nation fell and why; and we could have an overall list as well as "individual component" lists.
I also quite like the "EU Challenges Page" - I believe Paradox mentioned that they would have Steam achievements so we should take that into account as well. ~ Mayernik311 (talk) 06:06, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
To be honest I don't see much point to that beyond making a beginner's guide that recommends a few simple countries. If any country is particularly easy or difficult, that can be mentioned in the strategy part of their country page. ~ Meneth (talk) 14:17, 11 July 2013 (CEST)


I think Tiers should be inculded with their countries, I mean, people just want to see, so why not- Sargon

Tiers do not serve any practical purpose. They do not exist in the game itself. They're essentially just a way for Paradox to prioritize countries. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:39, 23 July 2013 (CEST)
People would like to know which countries Paradox focuses on.
Then they can visit the tiers page itself. Tiers have no effect on the actual game, and thus have no need to be represented on the country page. Especially not as prominently as in the country template itself. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:41, 23 July 2013 (CEST)
I'd have to disagree, a lot of people would like to know what tier a country right on its page
The country template is only for important information. Tier is not important information, as it does not exist in the game. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:43, 23 July 2013 (CEST)

Honestly, the question is, why put the Tech groups there,which a lot of people DON'T care about , compared to the tiers, which a lot of people like to have on the page to know. Its a way to show how much flavor a country has. The amount of depth is a key game concept.

The higher the tier the higher the priority.

Tech group has a massive in-game effect. At the extreme end, the Native American tech group makes tech cost 150% more, and reduces monarch points in all categories by 2. Tiers have literally no in-game effect. The lists of unique decisions and missions shows flavor rather well. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:51, 23 July 2013 (CEST)

People want to know what tier the country is in. I rest my case.

Then they can go to the tiers page. It is not relevant enough to put on the page itself. And of course, the only person you've demonstrated that wants to know the tiers is yourself. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:54, 23 July 2013 (CEST)

Why Not? The country pages are mostly empty

The template is only for important information; if not it'll get bloated. The templates will look much larger once countries actually have flags assigned. ~ Meneth (talk) 19:00, 23 July 2013 (CEST)

EU3 Wiki

Have you progressed any further in the Creation of an eu3 wiki? Medibee (talk) 00:43, 24 July 2013 (CEST)

Still awaiting further response from the guy managing the Paradoxian EU3 Wiki. I'll ask him for an update. ~ Meneth (talk) 00:52, 24 July 2013 (CEST)
That sucks, hope he responds soon. ~ Medibee (talk) 01:45, 24 July 2013 (CEST)

New countries

All the new countries are coming from here: We should have the inferstructure that we should just add the information, if possible

Home trade node

Should we add the home trade node to the menu table? Andrew4250 (talk) 03:53, 29 July 2013 (CEST)

You mean the country page template? I suppose it would make some sense. Though it can also be decently covered in the body of the country page as well, so I'm not entirely sure. ~ Meneth (talk) 12:33, 29 July 2013 (CEST)

Hello, new here!

Hello dude as you can see im editing the "Bosnia" page a bit and I want to ask you (as im new to this wiki) how to upload pictures?

Thanks in advnace.

The page should now have a redlink saying "325px" at the top of the country template. That'll take you to the upload screen. Make sure the uploaded image is 800x533. If you don't have a flag of that size, just leave it empty and someone will eventually upload it. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:23, 1 August 2013 (CEST)

Checksum ≠ Multiplayer

I don't believe that you should conflate Multiplayer and Checksum. They don't really have anything to do with each other, really.

For instance, the checksum can be used to ensure that a game was installed correctly. That has nothing to do with multiplayer features. --PeterCorless (talk) 02:49, 3 August 2013 (CEST)

It is mostly used for multiplayer though, so it seems the most logical place to put it. Overall it seems a bit silly to have a page for such a minor thing rather than rolling it into a different page. I'm gonna get some sleep momentarily though, so we can continue discussing it tomorrow. Feel free to start a discussion about the best location for info on the checksum in the forum thread. ~ Meneth (talk) 02:51, 3 August 2013 (CEST)

Beginner's Guide on main page? or somewhere not too deep?

Would it be possible to change the front page so that we can have a link to the Beginner's guide? Or some way that it wasn't buried so deep in the bowels of the system? --PeterCorless (talk) 10:36, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

Closer to release, yes. Once the demo is out, perhaps. ~ Meneth (talk) 11:25, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

Deleted Acronyms Category

You deleted all of the acronyms I had created without discussion. Yes, they were mostly based on redirects. If you don't want it handled that way, how do you want to make a category of acronyms? --PeterCorless (talk) 18:20, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

Oh come on! You are unilaterally deleting articles without discussion. Today I went to go find "Blob" and found it pointed to a non-existent article "Jargon." Can you stop deleting the pages I am creating? Thank you. --PeterCorless (talk) 18:36, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

The issue is that tons of small pages is not a good thing for the wiki. It makes it harder for people to find related info when the info instead could be contained on a central jargon page. I did not delete the acronyms, but I did remove them from the category as categorizing redirects is silly. I redirected them towards Jargon as that is by far the most fitting place for such content.
I believe the longest page I deleted was two paragraphs long. Page creep like that is one of the big reasons why the Paradoxian wikis are disorganized messes, and is something I try my best to avoid. I should perhaps have moved all the info as well, but when I wake up and see a dozen tiny pages created I'm not exactly in a mood to do so. The info is still contained in the revision histories however; it isn't gone. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:42, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
As a wiki administrator, you're going to have to find a better way to manage your mood than deleting other people's pages. --PeterCorless (talk) 18:47, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
I redirected most of them. I'm sorry for deleting them, but having those tiny pages does not add anything. I'm trying to improve upon the jargon page now by having descriptions for the acronyms. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:48, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
In your opinion. However, I have been posting to the Forum to add articles on everyone's favorite neologisms, and now, all the links I created in the past day are blown away -- leaving egg on my face. I am glad you are trying to help recover the data, but you need to be a bit more reserved if you don't want to alienate other people trying to help add content. Nothing is more disconcerting than to see page after page of contribution unilaterally destroyed without discussion. For instance, you could have asked me to consolidate the pages, or tagged them with a merge. --PeterCorless (talk) 18:51, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
I'm very much sorry for outright deleting them. There's not much more I can say/do than that. I will do my best to avoid such events in the future. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:52, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
Fair. And thanks. --PeterCorless (talk) 18:58, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
I very much appreciate your input. I think we can both get easily overeager; me with occasional autocratic actions, and you perhaps with creating pages ;). Anyway, I hope we can put that entirely behind us.
Take a look at my updates to the jargon page. I think it works much better this way. Any concept that has more to be written about it than just a paragraph or two can get its own page, while the rest I think should just be listed like that. ~ Meneth (talk) 19:00, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
Looks good! :) --PeterCorless (talk) 20:26, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

Template:Country -- add provinces at start dates?

What do you think?


I don't think that we need to enumerate all the provinces a country has at each start date (listing them all by name seems too much), but perhaps we could put in a simple province count for them. That way, people will be able to see if a country is even in a certain scenario, and how its power waxes and wanes based on the start date.

In the long term, once the Wiki really gets started I could also see something like a "total (core, non-core, colony)" count. --PeterCorless (talk) 20:45, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

I think it'd probably work better to instead mention any exceptionally high or low points in the article body. For most nations their territory varies very little between starts. ~ Meneth (talk) 20:50, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
Austria? England? Spain? They vary widely. And many nations aren't even available in certain start dates. Most of the Irish states disappear after a while. I think it would help people navigate the countries over time. If it's not in the main infobox, perhaps there could be a scenario infobox lower on the page for each country with this information? --PeterCorless (talk) 21:17, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
The big countries vary quite a bit. Almost everyone else either don't vary at all, or simply vary between existing and not existing. It might be worth to have a specific page for countries that change over time, listing all of them (with exact dates, even), but I don't think it is common enough to justify putting it on every country page (but of course in the body for countries where there is significant change). ~ Meneth (talk) 21:27, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

I think at least some information about the 1444 start (the first start is always the most played one) would be good. If the country exists or no and the number of provinces. (talk)

Definitely, but pretty much every country page should start with a line or two about their position in the world. I'm not really sure it fits well into the country template in any way that isn't already well covered by the page's intro. ~ Meneth (talk) 23:08, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

Problem of tumbnail in HRE section

I cannot see the screenshot that you uploaded, and when I changed it, I finally could see it. There is a problem with my browser (Internet Explorer 9)? Do you see this full upload? --Wrongovernmentype (talk) 21:21, 11 August 2013 (CEST)

Yep, the image works just fine for me. Try CTRL+F5. ~ Meneth (talk) 21:23, 11 August 2013 (CEST)
I'll try and if you see this, I'll not change it. --Wrongovernmentype (talk) 21:52, 11 August 2013 (CEST)

Add Strategy guide sections

Now when the full game is out, I think it will be better if there will be strategy guides to every country. Don't you think so? Actually, it can be added as section to every country like there are sections of national ideas, missions and etc. Not like in the eu3 one. --Wrongovernmentype (talk) 01:04, 15 August 2013 (CEST)

Yep. Country pages should have info about strategy. ~ Meneth (talk) 11:00, 15 August 2013 (CEST)

Inline references, LaTeX formula display

Any chance of enabling inline references and/or LaTeX formula display?

--Evil4Zerggin (talk) 21:28, 18 August 2013 (CEST)

If you can demonstrate a need for it ;) ~ Meneth (talk) 23:54, 18 August 2013 (CEST)
Citing is good for sourcing forum posts, such as the recent talk on flanking mechanics. It's also useful for making footnotes in tables; for example, what is currently done using asterisks in Countries. As for LaTeX math display, I think it would make it easier to read formulas on pages such as Trade and Land warfare (especially once the actual mechanics are more worked out on the latter). --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 01:52, 19 August 2013 (CEST)
Seconding this request - the Trade page is nigh-unreadable now because all the math is done in plaintext. --Pyroclastic (talk) 00:12, 21 August 2013 (CEST)
Cite and Math are being installed now. They should be live in a few minutes. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:18, 28 August 2013 (CEST)
Cite is now on. I can't get Math working due to using a shared host however. ~ Meneth (talk) 18:47, 28 August 2013 (CEST)
Thanks! Any chance of [1] working? --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 21:47, 28 August 2013 (CEST)
That's what I tried to use. Couldn't get it working sadly. ~ Meneth (talk) 21:47, 28 August 2013 (CEST)
Rats! Well, thanks again for looking into it. --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 21:52, 28 August 2013 (CEST)

Map Resources

Hey Meneth, would it be possible to have some maps of EU4 similar to these? All I need is a blank map to paint but if you are capable could you try getting a map with: cultures, religion, regions and trade? Thanks!

KaTiON (talk) 12:58, 21 August 2013 (CEST)

My CKII map script should work for the EU4 files as well; it'll just take longer due to their sheer size. ~ Meneth (talk) 13:30, 21 August 2013 (CEST)
Awesome, I can't do this is because I don't have photoshop to load your script. KaTiON (talk) 13:48, 21 August 2013 (CEST)
Never mind, I managed to do it. Do note your script is somewhat broken for Photoshop CC. It made the arguably hardest part which was to convert everything to outline, the rest I used KaTiON (talk) 18:10, 21 August 2013 (CEST)

Sticking huge events in the discussion page

Hey, the point of posting the events in the discussion page is to not only make it easier for someone to confirm my interpretation of code, but to allow access to it without having to search in their own steam folder. Which will hopefully encourage more people to understand code, eventually contributing more to this wiki^^

Pastebin it and link the Pastebin instead :)
Sticking the event as a whole makes it rather difficult to get to any discussion below the event. ~ Meneth (talk) 11:54, 25 August 2013 (CEST)
Yeah it may have been a few hundred lines :D
I'm hosting the content on my user page now, somewhat I dont like pastebin :P Damarow (talk)
That's fine, I suppose. Though I do think Pastebin would be preferable. ~ Meneth (talk) 15:08, 26 August 2013 (CEST)