Talk:Vassal

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A - This article is considered an A-class article on the wiki quality scale

Assessment[edit]

I've assessed this page as an A-class page. I don't think there'd be that much needed to get it to FA-status; just ensuring everything is correct and such. ~ Meneth (talk) 20:53, 18 July 2014 (CEST)

However, it's not updated for version 1.7 and so most data on this page is outdated

3-province cap removed?[edit]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?724035-Vassalization-chance-and-base-tax-comparison --General Baker Great Britain.png (Talk | Contribs) 20:14, 24 September 2013 (CEST)

Base tax[edit]

I've tested if buildings count as base tax when it comes to the vassalization modifiers. The result is that they do; I coded an event to add temples to all of Serbia's provinces, which took the base tax modifier from -69 to -78. "Tax income" modifiers clearly count, while "tax modifier" modifiers do not; constables did nothing to increase diplovassalization cost. ~ Meneth (talk) 20:58, 8 November 2013 (CET)

Is there any way to find out another country's base tax? --Pookles (talk) 16:37, 25 December 2013 (CET)
Add up all of their province basetax (by looking at their province panels)? --• General Baker Flag of Great Britain (Talk) • 22:03, 25 December 2013 (CET)

Is this formula actually accurate anymore? Adding up base tax, plus the temples, and even counting two extra for the capital of a country produces a much lower penalty than is shown in game. And if temples and stock exchanges are the only buildings that affect the total, how does the value shown on the economy screen manage to sometimes be X.5? There's no .5 provinces, and no buildings that add .5 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.151.197.38 (Talk) 01:35, 3 May 2014 (CEST)

At least as of 1.7.3 this doesn't seem to be true anymore. I compared OPMs to see what happens and the formula is only accurate, when you take the base tax without any modifiers (temples, capital city etc.) into account. In addition: Vassals DO count to your relevant base tax. You get the base tax of your vassal, multiplied with the vassal income efficiency (you can see this modifier in the subject ledger). Example: Bavaria at start without any vassals:

Relevant base tax for comparison = (6 + 14 + 6 + 12 =) 38
economy screen shows: 38 + 2 (for the capital city) + 1 (temple in Nuremberg) = 41

Bavaria at start with Salzburg as a vassal (savegame was modified for this):

Relevant base tax for comparison = 38 + 10 (base tax of Salzburg) * 40% (vassal income efficiency) = 42
economy screen shows: 41 + (10 base tax of Salzburg + 2 for capital) * 40% = 45.8

I hope I could clarify this a bit (also why the economy screen shows .5 numbers). Sorry for bad text formatation, I don't have any clue about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.181.236.71 (Talk) 18:54, 7 August 2014 (CEST)

Local autonomy should probably be taken into account when doing this calculation. E.g. if local autonomy is 50%, base tax and production only count half. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.198.231.170 (Talk) 22:34, 13 April 2016 (CEST)

The formula 60x(base_tax+base_production+vassal_base_tax)/(target_base_tax+target_base_production)^2-90 seems to no longer be true in the latest version (1.17). I calculated it in a Vijayanagar game where I had 302 combined base tax and base production, while Malabar had 17. That should result in -27.3 reasons for Vassalisation, but the game says it's -57 reasons. +30 still seems to be the cap (when looking at the Maledives, in this case). --212.51.159.86 21:12, 15 May 2016 (CEST)

1.4 vassal changes[edit]

Newly created vassals don't take on the suzerain's religion. They take predominant religion of provinces. They also don't accept province sales if not strategically interesting. Any other changes to vassal?--Pookles (talk) 19:36, 15 January 2014 (CET)

I believe that the change with province sales is to prevent players gaming the system through various methods. It stops you from handing out large amounts of conquered territory to vassals, and so dodging having to core them yourself and taking on Unlawful Territory opinion modifiers. Before you could reasonably claim the entire HRE through this approach. As long as you were careful to declare wars on people that Austria wouldn't protect then you could keep every province from every war you ever won inside the HRE, and with no specific reason not to - It saved you admin power to core, it saved you over extension's peripheral side effects, it meant you never had to deal with a province with nationalism and the other downsides from expansion. You could snowball extremely fast and with very little risk as your vassals became quite powerful quite quickly and within a few years you could take on powerful principalities like Brandenburg or Bohemia without even risking your own man power. So they changed it :)
"If you are a daimyo and force another daimyo to release another daimyo, then that daimyo will become a proper vassal of Japan now." --94.212.51.156 18:24, 22 January 2014 (CET)

Religion and government of released nations[edit]

This page currently states that "The released vassal will take the master country's religion." I'm pretty sure this is incorrect, and it actually takes the religion of either the majority of its provinces or its capital province, but I'm not sure which; in my Japan game, I recently released Shun and Zhou, and Zhou was Confucian because the majority of its provinces were Confucian, but two-province Shun decided to be Buddhist, when its capital province was Buddhist but its other province wasn't. So could someone please confirm what actually decides a released vassal's religion?

Another thing which this page doesn't currently mention is the released country's government type. I believe it matches the overlord's government type; as Friesland, I've released Administrative Republic Provence. But it doesn't have to be the exact same government, as in the Japan game I mentioned Shun was an Empire and Zhou a Despotic Monarchy (iirc). Again, could someone please confirm how this works? 131.111.184.100 00:57, 14 March 2014 (CET)


Coring[edit]

Can someone put in the details about vassals extending coring range? I saw Shen and DDRJake core provinces next to a vassal, even though it would have been outside of their coring range. I am unsure if it only works on same continent or overseas as well. 98.193.96.141 06:00, 25 July 2014 (CEST)

Date became vassal / Time until annex is possible[edit]

Is there any way to check how long until the req. 10 year period has elapsed or at what date the provence became a vassal state? If so this would be good information to include here.

It used to be shown in the tooltip over the annex vassal button, but that was removed in the 1.8 patch. The information was supposed to be moved to the vassal's tooltip in the subjects tab, but that has yet to show up. You can still check a vassal's creation date through the province histories if it was released by a nation, but otherwise you just have to start keeping notes until this gets fixed. Vyn (talk) 21:53, 5 November 2014 (CET)
Actually: "If you go to the diplomacy screen of your vassal, mouse over the "vassal shield" icon in the main log and it will say vassal since X date." ~ Meneth (talk) 22:39, 5 November 2014 (CET)
Ooooooh... well, better find the icon for that to make it clear on the page. I'll be right back. Vyn (talk) 23:19, 5 November 2014 (CET)

"As of version 1.8.1, vassal income is calculated using the vassal's vassal income modifiers, not those of the overlord. This makes vassal income modifiers entirely useless."[edit]

Isn't the modifier added after the calculation?

vassal's capital[edit]

how do i know which province becomes a capital of a released nation, since it decides the nation's religion?

vassal's core creation[edit]

Does vassal core fed to it provinces, which have been given to it through siege transfer in peace deal? In other words: does it core uncored provinces while being in diplo-anex process? 22:20, 9 January 2015 (CET)

distant overseas/colonies integration cost[edit]

how is it calculated? is it still 10 diplo-points per base tax? - which would make it less useful :/ 09:25, 20 January 2015 (CET)

Split[edit]

All the topic about marches should be moved to a seperate page. All the other subject nations have own pages. – Lillebror (talk) 07:54, 15 August 2015 (CEST)

Vassal Forcelimits contribution[edit]

I think this is bugged in game and doesn't work as the wiki says. Wiki says a vassal gives its overlord 25% of its own force limits as base, but IME the vassal gives you +1 regardless of size or development, +2 with the Influence finisher. I'm not 100% sure on this, has anybody else experienced this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.51.159.86 (Talk) 21:12, 15 May 2016‎ (CEST)

I think you are right. Therefore I changed the section with links to the relevant static modifiers. – Lillebror (talk) 09:42, 17 May 2016 (CEST)

Post 1.23 updates[edit]

I updated the first section about creating vassals because it was severely out of date. To verify the mechanics that have changed since 1.2 (that's how outdated it was), I ran some tests in-game and confirmed that development is the primary factor for determining the official religion of a normal released vassal (not client states); the number of provinces and status of the potential capital are not the determining factors.

In case any have some doubts, I tested this by playing Castille and using the console to annex Morocco. When I selected the option to release it, it would have released as Sunni. I converted its potential capital to Catholicism and checked again, and it was still Sunni. I then converted seven or so provinces to Catholicism and Morocco still would have released as Sunni. I then used the console commands to give myself monarch points and poured them into developing the Catholic provinces without converting additional ones. Even though I hadn't converted any more provinces, Morocco released as a Catholic and not Sunni state.

I am going to keep working on expanding this article. Vassal mechanics are fairly intricate and I think this article could be great for new players. Azhcristokos (talk) 20:41, 17 November 2017 (CET)