Talk:Institutions

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Rewrite needed[edit]

A rewrite is needed, as the page does not currently conform to Project:Style. In particular it makes excessive reference to the reader, while articles should strive to keep a third-person narrative. ~ Meneth (talk) 09:11, 22 August 2013 (CEST)

Better? --Grifen88 (talk) 09:41, 2 September 2013 (CEST)
Much better, though some 2nd person segments were still left in. I'll see if I can clean those bits up. ~ Meneth (talk) 10:30, 2 September 2013 (CEST)

When to Westernize?[edit]

Is it better to westernize as soon as possible? For example in 1444 leaving all techs at 3-3-3 and wait for other nations to go 5-4-4?

Or should one westernize when one's troops no longer compete against western ones? KaTiON (talk) 18:23, 30 August 2013 (CEST)

Unless you have a use for so much monarch points, it makes sense to invest in at least one level in administrative tech to unlock the first idea block. There's very little to spend military points early on, so it makes sense to get a military idea first to get started with the national ideas. Depending on the nation you start with, other types of monarch point can be very useful in the beginning (coring, stability, WE, changing culture). For me it makes more sense to get to at least 5 in administrative and diplomatic tech, to unlock the first buildings. Thus in the meantime while waiting to fall behind to be able to wersternize, you can build up your economy, trade and military potential. Mindcorrosive (talk) 19:27, 30 August 2013 (CEST)
I can't imagine a situation where it would be acceptable to westernize at 3-3-3. Most non-western countries are very far from Europe, and have to work to be able to westernize at all. Many interesting countries have to struggle to survive. IMHO the best option to westernize whould be when you unlock the 2 idea groups, which enable you to spend monarch points (admin and diplo), so you can lag behind on tech without wasting momentum, while keeping military as up-to-date as possible (and it is possible to be on par with Europe even in Chinese group).--80.251.112.198 23:45, 20 June 2015 (CEST)

What *is* westernization?[edit]

Just thinking, a simple description of what actually 'is' westernisation, how the process begins and ends, would be useful. As it stands, and as someone who has never done it, I can't by skim-reading figure out how it works, or plot the key points on an imaginary timeline.

Or am I just misreading?--General Baker Great Britain.png (Talk | Contribs) 20:39, 21 October 2013 (CEST)

Do you mean from a game mechanic point of view, or from a "historical" point of view (the latter of which is very confused on Paradox's part IMO)? Or both? --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 20:42, 21 October 2013 (CEST)
More the mechanics... how does the westernization process come to an end? Are there any milestones etc?--General Baker Great Britain.png (Talk | Contribs) 20:45, 21 October 2013 (CEST)
Issue dealt with as far as I'm concerned; cheers Evil4Zerggin.--General Baker Great Britain.png (Talk | Contribs) 23:49, 21 October 2013 (CEST)

Could someone please check/confirm how much monarch power it costs to Westernise as a Horde?[edit]

I've edited the progress section to say that the 2000 monarch power base cost of westernisation is modified by a country's tech group prior to westernising, not by their original tech group - however, I haven't actually checked this. I simply assumed that in, say, a Manchu-to-Qing game, or a Timurids-to-Mughals game, or indeed a game as any other horde, when you start westernising the cost would be determined by the tech group you were in at the time, namely Muslim or Chinese, and not the tech group you were in at the start of the game, Nomad. Could someone please either check this or confirm from past experience how much westernising a horde costs?

In the same vein, does westernising a North American tribe cost a whopping 7000 monarch power? That's horrendous, especially since you can only store 3000. 192.76.7.201 17:35, 15 April 2014 (CEST)

Tech level requirement[edit]

In a 1.8.1 game as Castile, I just saw Jolof beginning westernization with only 8 levels of tech difference to me, its only western neighbor. Jolof is in the sub-Saharan tech group with a +60% penalty, so presumably it should only be able to westernize with a 7 * 1.6 ~ 11 tech level difference. Has the tech level requirement changed, or is this due to me holding Jolof cores? If having a core held by a western nation allows one to bypass the tech requirement for westernization, then this should probably be noted in the article. Vyn (talk) 11:56, 12 November 2014 (CET)

Switch to other tech groups[edit]

is there a way to "easternize" or "chinaize" or something like that? or maybe a mod? it does make sence to change your tech group to eastern if you're playing in east asia when russia comes, or to chinese when japan comes to americas (with randomized new world) and such.

No. With the exception of a few decisions (E.G., forming the Mughals), it is not possible to change to any group other than Western. ~ Meneth (talk) 16:28, 3 December 2014 (CET)
it is possible to change from any horde to chinese/muslim tech group..
I don't really see any reason why not make it unified (when playing not-real-history mode of course)

Westernisation vs buildings[edit]

I hate it when you westernize a country and the architecture is still... the same!--86.3.200.81 06:58, 19 January 2015 (CET)

Requirements?[edit]

What are the actual requirements?

Currently, the following seem to be missing in the section "Requirements": Overextension = 0%? At peace? Is there anything else that is missing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.247.96.75 (talk) 07:58, 7 May 2015‎

Westernisation content[edit]

Page about Westernization without a single word about it? What happened? Where is the button? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.190.57.16 (talk) 22:19, 6 February 2017 (CET)

Westernization was removed with patch 1.18. Now EU4 has a new technology system that uses institutions. If you search for information pre patch 1.18, you can take a look at the last version of this page before the patch. – Lillebror (talk) 22:42, 6 February 2017 (CET)
Write a single word about westernization or remove redirect. You misleading people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.190.57.16 (talk) 05:53, 7 February 2017‎ (CET)
Moderator reply: Do not take that tone with the volunteers on the wiki. It is not constructive and it is not welcome. Remember that with text as the medium it is impossible to convey extra meaning with changes in vocal pitch. Dauth (talk) 10:18, 7 February 2017 (CET)
Now that is dealt with, you raise an important point and I will add a comment into the page explaining that westernisation was removed. Dauth (talk) 10:18, 7 February 2017 (CET)

Spread rate for Global Trade with trade power is incorrect[edit]

"Has at least 35 Trade Power" should be 1.2 and "Has at least 45 Trade Power" should be 1.6. I just double checked with the game files. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.157.248.179 (talk) 12:27, 23 April 2017 (CEST)

The page has the values for patch 1.19. Please update to patch 1.20. – Lillebror (talk) 10:44, 24 April 2017 (CEST)