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Rewrite needed[edit source]

A rewrite is needed, as the page does not currently conform to Project:Style. In particular it makes excessive reference to the reader, while articles should strive to keep a third-person narrative. ~ Meneth (talk) 09:11, 22 August 2013 (CEST)

Better? --Grifen88 (talk) 09:41, 2 September 2013 (CEST)
Much better, though some 2nd person segments were still left in. I'll see if I can clean those bits up. ~ Meneth (talk) 10:30, 2 September 2013 (CEST)

When to Westernize?[edit source]

Is it better to westernize as soon as possible? For example in 1444 leaving all techs at 3-3-3 and wait for other nations to go 5-4-4?

Or should one westernize when one's troops no longer compete against western ones? KaTiON (talk) 18:23, 30 August 2013 (CEST)

Unless you have a use for so much monarch points, it makes sense to invest in at least one level in administrative tech to unlock the first idea block. There's very little to spend military points early on, so it makes sense to get a military idea first to get started with the national ideas. Depending on the nation you start with, other types of monarch point can be very useful in the beginning (coring, stability, WE, changing culture). For me it makes more sense to get to at least 5 in administrative and diplomatic tech, to unlock the first buildings. Thus in the meantime while waiting to fall behind to be able to wersternize, you can build up your economy, trade and military potential. Mindcorrosive (talk) 19:27, 30 August 2013 (CEST)
I can't imagine a situation where it would be acceptable to westernize at 3-3-3. Most non-western countries are very far from Europe, and have to work to be able to westernize at all. Many interesting countries have to struggle to survive. IMHO the best option to westernize whould be when you unlock the 2 idea groups, which enable you to spend monarch points (admin and diplo), so you can lag behind on tech without wasting momentum, while keeping military as up-to-date as possible (and it is possible to be on par with Europe even in Chinese group).-- 23:45, 20 June 2015 (CEST)

What *is* westernization?[edit source]

Just thinking, a simple description of what actually 'is' westernisation, how the process begins and ends, would be useful. As it stands, and as someone who has never done it, I can't by skim-reading figure out how it works, or plot the key points on an imaginary timeline.

Or am I just misreading?--General Baker Great Britain.png (Talk | Contribs) 20:39, 21 October 2013 (CEST)

Do you mean from a game mechanic point of view, or from a "historical" point of view (the latter of which is very confused on Paradox's part IMO)? Or both? --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 20:42, 21 October 2013 (CEST)
More the mechanics... how does the westernization process come to an end? Are there any milestones etc?--General Baker Great Britain.png (Talk | Contribs) 20:45, 21 October 2013 (CEST)
Issue dealt with as far as I'm concerned; cheers Evil4Zerggin.--General Baker Great Britain.png (Talk | Contribs) 23:49, 21 October 2013 (CEST)

Could someone please check/confirm how much monarch power it costs to Westernise as a Horde?[edit source]

I've edited the progress section to say that the 2000 monarch power base cost of westernisation is modified by a country's tech group prior to westernising, not by their original tech group - however, I haven't actually checked this. I simply assumed that in, say, a Manchu-to-Qing game, or a Timurids-to-Mughals game, or indeed a game as any other horde, when you start westernising the cost would be determined by the tech group you were in at the time, namely Muslim or Chinese, and not the tech group you were in at the start of the game, Nomad. Could someone please either check this or confirm from past experience how much westernising a horde costs?

In the same vein, does westernising a North American tribe cost a whopping 7000 monarch power? That's horrendous, especially since you can only store 3000. 17:35, 15 April 2014 (CEST)

Tech level requirement[edit source]

In a 1.8.1 game as Castile, I just saw Jolof beginning westernization with only 8 levels of tech difference to me, its only western neighbor. Jolof is in the sub-Saharan tech group with a +60% penalty, so presumably it should only be able to westernize with a 7 * 1.6 ~ 11 tech level difference. Has the tech level requirement changed, or is this due to me holding Jolof cores? If having a core held by a western nation allows one to bypass the tech requirement for westernization, then this should probably be noted in the article. Vyn (talk) 11:56, 12 November 2014 (CET)

Switch to other tech groups[edit source]

is there a way to "easternize" or "chinaize" or something like that? or maybe a mod? it does make sence to change your tech group to eastern if you're playing in east asia when russia comes, or to chinese when japan comes to americas (with randomized new world) and such.

No. With the exception of a few decisions (E.G., forming the Mughals), it is not possible to change to any group other than Western. ~ Meneth (talk) 16:28, 3 December 2014 (CET)
it is possible to change from any horde to chinese/muslim tech group..
I don't really see any reason why not make it unified (when playing not-real-history mode of course)

Westernisation vs buildings[edit source]

I hate it when you westernize a country and the architecture is still... the same!-- 06:58, 19 January 2015 (CET)

Requirements?[edit source]

What are the actual requirements?

Currently, the following seem to be missing in the section "Requirements": Overextension = 0%? At peace? Is there anything else that is missing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:58, 7 May 2015‎

Westernisation content[edit source]

Page about Westernization without a single word about it? What happened? Where is the button? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:19, 6 February 2017 (CET)

Westernization was removed with patch 1.18. Now EU4 has a new technology system that uses institutions. If you search for information pre patch 1.18, you can take a look at the last version of this page before the patch. – Lillebror (talk) 22:42, 6 February 2017 (CET)
Write a single word about westernization or remove redirect. You misleading people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:53, 7 February 2017‎ (CET)
Moderator reply: Do not take that tone with the volunteers on the wiki. It is not constructive and it is not welcome. Remember that with text as the medium it is impossible to convey extra meaning with changes in vocal pitch. Dauth (talk) 10:18, 7 February 2017 (CET)
Now that is dealt with, you raise an important point and I will add a comment into the page explaining that westernisation was removed. Dauth (talk) 10:18, 7 February 2017 (CET)

Spread rate for Global Trade with trade power is incorrect[edit source]

"Has at least 35 Trade Power" should be 1.2 and "Has at least 45 Trade Power" should be 1.6. I just double checked with the game files. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:27, 23 April 2017 (CEST)

The page has the values for patch 1.19. Please update to patch 1.20. – Lillebror (talk) 10:44, 24 April 2017 (CEST)

Spread rate for Manufacturies is incorrect[edit source]


In Europe and has a manufactory 1.0
Not in Europe and has a manufactory 0.24

Should be

On the same continent as the birthplace of the institution 1.0
Not on the same continent as the birthplace of the institution (all manufacturies except textile manufactury/farm estate) 0.25
Not on the same continent as the birthplace of the institution (textile manufactory) 0.50

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquilegia (talk) 19:02, 9 October 2019‎ (CEST)

What does "has a port" mean in spread reasons?[edit source]

The global spread can spread with "Has a port and Global Trade is present in an adjacent province". Does it mean any coastal city suffice, or does it mean a center of trade port? 18:57, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

A port is the small thing where you can dock your ships. There are some sea tiles like the Caspian sea which don't have any ports(maybe you can call them lakes). Grotaclas (talk) 08:15, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

What about colonies and trade companies?[edit source]

The article says:

   "At least 10% of the country's autonomy-modified development must have the institution present to be able to embrace it. Once this threshold is met, it requires 2.5 Gold ducats per remaining development to embrace the institution..."

Are colonies and trade company provinces also included for this? 01:19, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Effects of development[edit source]

Are the values in this section accurate? Compared to the spreadsheets I was able to find online, it seems like all the values are slightly incorrect. Stackpointer (talk) 19:21, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

do the spreadsheets match the old version of the page? That version didn't round down development cost so it assumed you could pay x.5 for developing a province(e.g. 51.5 to increase dev from 10 to 11). That was corrected with this change. The current version of the page matches the calculations that I did for version 1.29, except for the values for 25, 26 and 27 initial development. In my calculation these three values were 1 monarch point more expensive, but I don't know if that is an error in my calculation or an error in the wiki calculation. --Grotaclas (talk) 20:17, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Using anchor in links to "capital area"[edit source]

The "capital area" links in the page lead to the page named "Capital_Area", but it is actually a redirection to the "Capital" page, which has a "Capital Area" section. I think the links should lead directly to "Capital#Capital_area" instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:cb15:8030:c700:8e92:2fb:5dd9:a097 (talk) 10:10, 28 July 2020‎ (UTC)

I don't think anyone would have an objection to that. Feel free to go ahead and change it. In the future, please sign your comments with ~~~~. ~ SolSys (talk) 15:49, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Manufactories[edit source]

The maufactories institution somehow just spawns in the capital if its the highest developed province in your entire realm — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:26, 28 December 2020‎ (CET)

It can spawn in any province as long as the province fulfills all requirements. In my most recent game it spawned in Mainz which was owned by Frankfurt at that time and their capital province Frankfurt was their province with the highest development. --Grotaclas (talk) 05:44, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Why I think that province ID and tag order doesn't matter for the spawning of an institution[edit source]

I did two experiments. In the first experiment in september 2020 I changed the year condition for spawning the Renaissance to 1445 and the spawning chance to 99%. I then let the game run 10 times from the start date to Jan 1st 1445 and noted where the Renaissance spawned:

province province id tag tag order
Bologna 4730 BLG 820
Firenze 116 LAN 212
Sienna 117 SIE 206
Firenze 116 LAN 212
Roma 118 PAP 200
Roma 118 PAP 200
Saluzzo 4727 SZO 822
Saluzzo 4727 SZO 822
Roma 118 PAP 200
Umbria 2976 PGA 844

With a 99% spawn chance, the institution should almost always spawn in the province which is rolled first or at least in one of the first few provinces. But the provinces with the lowest IDs which can spawn the Renaissance are Genoa (101), Milan (104), Mantua (109), Venezia (112), Ferrara (113) and the countries with the lowest tag order are Aragon(178), Ferrara(193), Genoa(194), Mantua (196), Milan (197). And none of these spawned the Renaissance in my test.

Today I did another test in which I changed the spawning conditions for the Renaissance to

   can_start = {
       is_year = 1445
       is_state = yes

This makes almost all colonized provinces in the world eligible. Even though I left the default spawn chance of 5% unchanged this time, it should spawn in provinces with a low ID or countries with a low tag order if they are checked first. But the institution spawned in

province province id tag tag order
Kamchatka 1034 KMC 718
Nyland 28 SWE 4
Siraf 4332 FRS 332
Outer Hebrides 253 LOI 64
Arcot 2027 VIJ 551
Pueblo 880 PUE 677
Kairwan 4566 TUN 299
Ravenna 114 VEN 209
Ganzhou 670 MNG 482
Noyon 4677 OIR 484

In this second experiment I restarted eu4 between each test. --Grotaclas (talk) 09:00, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Requirements for Colonialism are wrong[edit source]

The page incorrectly states that a colony in the New World is required to be eligible for the institution to spawn. However, I do not see this requirement anywhere in the games files, and I also managed to spawn the institution while I had no colony in America. As far as I am aware, only discovering America is enough to qualify.

The requirement is correct. It was added in 1.31.5. Are you maybe playing an older version? --Grotaclas (talk) 21:56, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
Oh well, good to know. I checked 1.30 and 1.31 but not the very last patch, indeed.

Removing protection from the page[edit source]

This page was protected years ago to prevent accidentally modifying westernization section. Since that's gone now I think it can be unlocked. Chris Pie (talk) 22:58, 15 August 2022 (UTC)