Talk:Army

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Mercenary maintenance

Modifiers that lower land maintenance like the defense idea, but also a lowered maintenance slider and raising war taxes do in fact lower the maintenance of mercs. Why is this page telling me otherwise?--Nimrond (talk) 12:41, 12 September 2013 (CEST)

Perhaps you could edit the page to correct the information? We aren't all-knowing... --• General Baker (Talk | Contribs) • 19:03, 12 September 2013 (CEST)

I am new to this, so I thought it better to ask first. I have checked it ingame, so I'll change it here.--Nimrond (talk) 19:32, 12 September 2013 (CEST)

Fair enough :) If you're sure you can verify the info you want to edit, please always feel free to; that's how we editors produce a collaborative project like this! --• General Baker (Talk | Contribs) • 21:05, 12 September 2013 (CEST)

Might have misattributed a modifier when I originally wrote the page---perhaps didn't take into account modifiers being diluted by the tech modifier. Will retest when I get home. --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 23:01, 12 September 2013 (CEST)

Okay, it's worse than I thought---the calculation is full of bugs. See forum:721842 --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 02:47, 14 September 2013 (CEST)

Wow, great catch! This changes everything! Btw: 'Other than this limit, mercenaries are recruited in provinces like regular forces.' Aren't they recruited unlike regular forces not along the development of the hiring country but the region they're hired from? Meaning possibly different mil tech units, no merc pool in new overseas provinces or only local troops from a different tech group - at least that's what I read, haven't tested it yet. Any info on that?--Nimrond (talk) 21:36, 28 September 2013 (CEST)

Also, has any of that changed with the new patch?--Nimrond (talk) 21:37, 28 September 2013 (CEST)

With the latest patch, regiment and economy view are the same regarding merc maintenance. The rest seems unchanged.--Nimrond (talk) 22:35, 28 September 2013 (CEST)

Mechanics questions

Can someone verify that armies don't take attrition in battle? I had a battle that lasted more than a year, with ~250 Russians attacking ~120 Ottomans in mountainous terrain, so the width was tiny. Anyway, having 300-400 units in a tiny province would have burned away everything if there were attrition active.

Also, is the 25% bonus to attrition from improved foraging defensive idea multiplicative or additive? Is it 10% attrition *(1.00-.25) = 7.5% attrition

Or is it 10% attrition -25% attrition = minimum attrition?

OK, I've added both of those statements to the page. Does anyone know whether reinforcements come to regiments that are in battle? Pookles (talk) 15:06, 21 November 2013 (CET)

They do not. ~ Meneth (talk) 15:17, 21 November 2013 (CET)

Attrition is off while in battle --Frontal nl (talk) 18:31, 18 November 2013 (CET)

Quality ideas

While browsing this page, came the idea, that an overall table (including all nations with military quality ideas) maybe more useful than several smaller list-like tables. It's benefit is that one can better overview the overall quality of a country's ideas. The table should include infantry, cavarly, artillery quality, discipline, tactics and stuff like that. Maybe morale bonus too, as it severly increases the overall "quality" of the armies, even if it is not directly related to quality.

Any ideas?

-It would become such a long list, that it would need to be put into a collapsing spoiler. Perhaps even a double-collapsing spoiler within the spoiler, in order to include national ideas and advisor bonuses. Have fun setting it up!

Bait & Switch tactic

Bait & Switch stated your Bait army can arrive the day *before* the enemy does. However, it *can't* arrive the day before the enemy completes its movement, because you'd need to perform the Bait&Switch 2 days before (=the day before your own army arrives). And a large force traveling 2 days is enough for the A.I. to change movement orders. So, it can only arrive on the *same* day or later, because A.I. can't change movement orders when arriving the next day. I made this mistake myself, so in order to prevent others from following this faulty advice: Edited. I also included a related trick to claim defensive bonuses in empty (=no army) provinces without causing the A.I. to stop moving.--Coineineagh (talk) 04:26, 5 February 2015 (CET)

Attrition

1) shouldn't the "Attrition modifier" multiplier be added to the "attrition (%) =" formula in the supply weight section?

2) maybe move the formula to the attrition damage section?

3) In the Attrition modifiers section there's an example of attrition damage, but it doesn't follow the above mentioned formula, unlike the example in Attrition damage section.

Gendalv (talk) 13:14, 6 September 2015 (CEST)

Purbias Register and switching reforms

I removed the following paragraph:

As of Patch 1.30, the Governmental Reform "Purbias Register" does not reset upon switching government type. This enables changing their Tier 4 reform to another such as the +5% ICA and +5% Discipline from the Theocracy Tier 4 'Integration of the Sohei', if in an Eastern Religion group.

To the IP address who wrote that: can you please explain how this is supposed to work and what it is supposed to accomplish! I tested switching to a theocracy with the last government reform while the reform Governmental Purbias Register was active and the reform was removed and the extra +5% discipline for rajputs were immediately lost. Also the reform is n--Grotaclas (talk) 13:25, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

1.30 attrition formula

1.30 uses new formula, see this reddit thread - https: / / www . reddit . com/r/eu4/comments/kdkw74/anyone_knows_eu4_attrition_formula/

Would anyone be so kind and update the article? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.162.78 (talk) 23:49, 20 December 2020‎ (CET)

Mercenary Maintanence & Recruitment Cost

Where does the recruitment cost modifier for different mercenary companies come in? It is very confusing that:

1) Recruitment cost = 48 * maintenance 2) Maintenance computed off mercenary recruitment cost (which means totally opposite with 1)? Other meaning could be that they keep recruitment cost / 48?)

In short, where does the 0.75x or 1.5x for unique / generic companies come in?

Marines' naval attrition

Wiki says "Their main advantage is that they do not take attrition at sea, thus avoiding the attrition troops take when being transported in the open sea (10%) or along the coast (1%)" but they do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.99.20.178 (talk) 4 February 2022‎

which version are you playing? I just tested 1.32.2 and the new 1.33 beta and my marines didn't get attrition when I transported them in either version. --Grotaclas (talk) 18:25, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

are you sure the mainenance formula is correct ?

i have just started a new game, with no maintenance or regiment cost modifier at all and with military tech 3. and my starting cavalry is costing me 0.55, instead of the 0.53 i expected (25 * 0.02 * (3 * 1.02) = 0.53) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.187.133.102 (talk) 20:59, 21 March 2022‎

did you test other situations? My guess would be that the rounding changed and the first 0.02 is actually 0.25/12 (see Army#cite_note-4). This would result in 0.552083... for the starting cavalry which I assume gets rounded down to 0.55 --Grotaclas (talk) 20:20, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

aaah it makes sense. Yes I had the same question for the infantry, which should cost 0.21 instead of 0.22 when I take the brut value of 0.02, but with 0.25 / 12, i get the the correct value. Thanks ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.187.133.102 (talk) 23:41, 21 March 2022‎ (CET)

I know that the 0.02 (rounded for 0.25/12) were correct in previous versions. So I made a quick test. The change to 0.25/12 was made with patch 1.31. (What a big difference 0.083% make.)– Lillebror (talk) 23:33, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I updated the formula. --Grotaclas (talk) 17:42, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Use of imprecise notation in regiment cost and regiment maintenance cost formulas

Does the ", 20%" at the end of the formulas in regiment cost and regiment maintenance cost formulas mean that there is minimum cap on the entire term of 20% or something else? There are several ways it could be interpreted and since it is not standard mathematical notation, without further written context it doesn't mean much. If 20% being a minimum is what it is meant to imply, a much more readable way to explain that would be to say that the sum of regiment cost modifiers is capped at -80% and remove the , 20% from the formulas. It's also likely that this interpretation is wrong or simply the 20% there is a mistake, in which case there will be better ways to explain what it does mean or needs to be removed completely respectively.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fossar (talk) 09:43, 11 May 2022‎

${\text{max}}\left(x,y\right)$ is commonly used notation to specify that the bigger of the two values should be used. Is there another "official" mathematical notation for this? But I agree that this is not very clear and a note saying that the reductions are capped would be better. --Grotaclas (talk) 11:14, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Ah I missed the max outside the bracket and was effectively reading the section as $\left(100\%+\sum \left({\text{regiment cost modifiers}},20\%\right)\right)$. Yes the current notation is correct. Perhaps putting another set of brackets like ${\text{regiment cost}}={\text{base cost}}\cdot {\text{max}}\left(\left[100\%+\sum {\text{regiment cost modifiers}}\right],20\%\right)$ would make it easier to distinguish that but not necessary. Fossar (talk) 13:01, 11 May 2022 (UTC)